EPISODE 6 - TODD COOK

Welcome to the Impulse Spotlight where we meet with product development professionals and shine a light on the products they are most proud of.

In this episode we talk to a polymer engineer who's upbringing in Brandenburg, Kentucky infused him with a spirit for exploration and a love for music. He has a 5 octave singing range and grew up honing his skills playing trombone in various bands.

Todd Cook is an R&D Engineer for Cook Polymer Technologies. Todd works in partnership with Cook medical group to develop medical components used in minimally invasive surgical equipment.

A scholarship from the National Science Foundation to study math modeling set him on a path toward engineering, but it was during his co-op experiences that Todd first discovered his passion for polymers. Todd's expertise in polymer engineering has led him to develop products for industry giants like GE, Electrolux, and Remington Arms.

Additionally Todd, alongside his friend Paul Nash, co-founded polymer eClub, an online platform dedicated to advancing polymer skill development with a focus on real-world application. 

In today's show we discuss the Remington Supercell Recoil Pad and learn how Todd was able to recognize a winning idea that meets all the requirements of a successful product from material advantages to market need.

Todd's advice on navigating the twists and turns of product development is a goldmine for aspiring designers. From idea inception to final product, he's been through it all and has plenty of stories to share.

Todd's enthusiasm for innovation is obvious especially when he talks about the potential of AI in creating complex and effective product models. He's all about pushing boundaries and exploring new possibilities. But it's not all smooth sailing. Todd knows firsthand the importance of persistence and grit in the face of challenges. He's here to remind us that every setback is just another opportunity to learn and grow.

Show Notes:

Click here to learn more about Polymer eClub.

Click here to learn more about the Remington Supercell Recoil Pad.

Podcast Transcript:

Hey, Todd, welcome to the show.

Thanks for having me, Troy. Appreciate it.

Sure, sure.

So a little over 25 years ago after working for another product development company, I started impulse kind of saw the writing on the wall that things were not going to be around long there. So struck out on my own and been designing products in the product development field ever since. So how did you get into product development .

Yeah, it kind of accidental as well. I when I was in college I was looking for an opportunity to kind of develop my skill set and I got a chance to go into the Edison program. At GE and there were a couple of rotations available and 1 of them was with R D and and the G, R and D folks that was their role is to create new products. For their businesses. And so I got into creating a new class of polymers and polymer composites with our with my first job, got my first patents and I was I was addicted like. That, you know, this this is a thing that I like to do and I am going to try to figure out how to do it and, you know, all these years later I am still doing it in a different way but still doing it so.

What is your current role and what kind of products are developing right now?

Yeah. So I am an R D engineer for polymer technology, which is part of the Cook Medical Group. They are a manufacturer of minimally invasive surgical instruments and we provide at CPT, we provide the components for those instruments to be manufactured so. If it needs a sleeve or cover tube or hub or whatever, we manufacture those things here. And so I am on the R D team for that. So I am the 1 helping to develop the material compounds , the product design details, drawings all the ERP setup that is required to schedule components to be run that kind of thing.

And tell us a little bit, I have been talking to you before. We are going to kind of shift gears, but tell us about the product that you want to talk about today and and why you product in particular?

Yeah, yeah. So it is it is my favorite story. If I am going to tell people about product development and try to inspire them a little bit, I would like to talk about the supercell recoil pad that I developed for Remington. And the reason I do that is because it has all the ingredients that new Product development , I think needs you have a market need, people are getting older and these things are less comfortable to use. It would be nice if there was some way to improve the comfort level. And so there are new materials technologies available. So there is another ingredient that goes in here. There is a new materials technology. As I told you, I am kind of a Mustang addict, I have been fooled most things in old cars for a long time. And 1 of the first things you do when you get a Mustang, it is an old 1 is you take all the rubber components off of the all the grommets off the suspension system and Replace them with poly thing because the dynamic properties are better. And so you just go, huh? I wonder if that applies to recoil pads because recall pads are rubber, you know, pretty much traditionally across the industry and so. That is kind of how that that seed got started and then we just said, you know, we are going to we are going to take this as far as it goes and and there are ingredients to that, right? Your your listeners will appreciate this, I think, and it is I have had places where I have developed products that were cheaper and I have had some successes in some failures with that. I have developed products that are better, they have some performance advantage and I have had some successes and some failures with that. But when I have developed a product that performed better and was less expensive to make, I have never lost. That is a winner every time. And so if you can find the opportunity to do that, you should do it. And so this was 1 of those, you know, polyurethane is not radically different than other materials and its price, but you can foam that material so you can put a foaming agent in it so that it reduces the density, so now you have a part that weighs less, which means, you know, you buy resins. By the pound. But you make parts by the cubic inch, right, so if you can make something slightly less dense than you can save money, and so if you can just imagine, this is a self skinning polyurethane that is has a foaming agent in it, so you basically have a something like a seat cushion, you know, it is a it is a completely integral skin, but it is foam inside so it collapses and as it turns out, you can engineer that collapse with the details of the poly thing that you use. And the amount of f. And so that gives you that dynamic property that you want and you can engineer that you can make some different versions and you can test them and find out which 1 works best. And the key there for me was finding a supplier that really wanted to work on the project found it interesting, thought it had a fit for their business, they had a machine that they knew they could run it on if it worked out. And so they they engage and that really helps too. So there is another element, you know, that kind of thing to have is is a supplier that has the has the skill set you need and has an interest in being able to make you successful because if they want to do it, they will work at it. And I had some great help there. So you get the idea, I am trying to sort of put together this package of saying if you are going to develop something new, it is really great to have all of those a market need an obvious material advantage that you can take advantage of in the product. Some feature or performance , you can enhance some way to reduce cost, improve performance for your client as it turns out a supplier that can do the task. And then finally, this is the hardest 1, right? It is market acceptance. People have to people have to use the product go, Man, this thing's great, you know. And that is in Remington you kind of had to get through the marketing team for that. They these are the people that control what goes into the marketplace because they want to control how they can how they can respond to their key customers and so forth they need, if you will, a portfolio of options to respond to that marketplace and and you get to be 1 of those items in that portfolio by demonstrating something that they can showcase and that can get customers excited to get people buying things and so on. And so they saw this and and there were things they did not like. And so we made some changes and we were able to get a product that we thought performed very well and had good long term properties, which is another important piece of that puzzle. And it rolled up into the marketplace in several different SKUs. And the interesting thing to me is even after the company has been through some turmoil, that product is still available still on the market still being used. And the comments that I see online of people using it is that they really like it and I am glad because that is that is what that is what this was all about for all of us really was to is to be able to create something that people can use and enjoy.

Sure, sure, for the listeners that might not know what is a recoil pat.

Yeah, yeah, so if you think about a rifle or shotgun, Remington's classic, you know, products, 200 year old company + so, you know, when you pull the trigger, a projectile gets pushed away from you at a high rate of speed, which means the gun comes back towards you. 200 years ago, it was a piece of brass on the end that was shaped as closely as possible to your shoulder to keep it from hurting 50 years ago, that piece of brass became a piece of rubber. And people had fiddled around with that rubber, they put holes in it and did different things to it to try to change the dynamics. This would be, you know, an integral skin phone, so an even softer disco, elastic response material with a pretty finish on it so that it looks nice represents the company logos and so forth. Well, but ultimately reduces pain because what as it turns out, it the the force that can be measured in in recoil is the key thing to think about if you can reduce that, you can reduce the discomfort. And if you reduce the discomfort, people enjoy the product more, maybe they shoot more. That can be good for the for the company too. But but anyway, that was the whole key is people are getting older, their shoulders hurt more, they can not shoot as much. How could we help that? And that was the kind of the driver behind that problem. So.

So that you talked about longevity a minute ago. I mean, is there a life to how long that recall pad can last? You know, so many shots or is it?

Right. Yeah. So terms of number of shots, maybe not, but but yeah, everything everything dies of old age. If you see old rubber products, right, they get kind of glassy looking and they get these little cracks in them. And eventually they become quite hard if you have ever tried to take a really old pencil and try to erase with it, it it does not work anymore. It is so hard that it will not really work anymore this material polyurethane the particular poly thing that we used is really 1 of the better materials for keeping its properties for a long period of time, and and the reason for that is essentially that if you think about rubber, you get rid of the of the unsaturation in the in the chemical backbone of the rubber, right, it is got double bonds by nature. And you get rid of those by creating these cross links, you can create something quite dramatic in terms of its strength and also long lasting, but it will not be very soft and pliable, so it will hurt when it hits you. So when you create the soft and pliable, you leave a lot of that unsaturation in there and you V and oxygen in the atmosphere and so on, take it away. Over time. So they get stiff and and they do not work as well. This material is better for that for that purpose. And we have seen a number of people try to go into the marketplace with. Partially cured materials, things that are not fully cross linked and and they are quite soft, but the problem is they get sticky and gummy over time and so they they do not really hold up. And, you know, that is kind of the motivator. People want something that, you know, you can literally use a gun when it is a 100 years old and and people want it to still work and so, you you know, we want to find materials that tend to last longer and do better. And so that is kind of the kind of the nature of that. So.

Sure. You have kind of touched on this a little bit, but, you know, we have helped people design thousands of products and every journey is a little bit different. So can you kind of walk us through the journey of like you know, you said, you you thought, well, I think the mustang, what would that apply to to the recoil pad, but what was the journey like, you know, getting it from that idea to the shelf ? Right. So there was a there was a design engineer that was working on a new shotgun program and he really wanted a better recoil pad as a feature of that program. It turned out this. That we did not dovetail because of the way that timing sometimes works out, but but basically he was the 1 that said, hey, I would like to try to find a way to do a better technology to have any ideas, and of course, that was the first idea. And he said, Yeah, you know, I have seen some I have seen some high end bike seats that have some that have some gel materials and things really soft materials on them. Let me get some samples and let us try to take a look at, you know, some things that are out there. We actually were able to find a manufacturer that had made 1 of those products and and talk to them and get some, you know what I would call slab sample materials, you know, things that they make that are just a big sheet. You can just cut it whatever shape you want. And we did some we did some testing with that and and tried to play with that and basically concluded it would not be able to be engineered to do what we needed it to do, in other words. It will drop the force a little bit, but we needed to drop it dramatically where people could feel the difference or it was not going to work. So and that is where you needed some part of the design to collapse immediately and then the other part to collapse slowly and so you go what collapses immediately air. And so that is that is kind of how we got to the you know, let us put let us put some cells in this thing and see how that goes when we talk to the manufacturer of the materials they were like. You know, you sound like you are talking about something like this, and then they showed me something that was interesting, but not relevant as it turns out at the time, which was the earpieces for military headsets, everybody's seen these kind of I do not know, I described kind of mint green with a microphone and you expect to, you know, in an action movie the guy puts these on and he talks to the tower and so forth and so right.

The helicopter pilots got them on.

That pad is a self skinning poly thing, but it is very low density for comfort. And so our our quest was now can that manufacturer make a density that is relevant for us? So we got together had a meeting with them and they were like, yeah, we we used to do a few things and they brought out some samples of various parts for furniture and and shoes souls and things that they had done. You know, in their history they have never done anything quite like ours and then he asked me, you know, knowledgeable about guns and was a hunter and he said, You know, how do you keep the screws from tearing out of this thing? And I said, you know, the same way we do the other ones, we will we will put a rigid material inside that will handle the screw guidance and that kind of thing and then you will just mold over it. He is like, great, what do you think that should look like? And so I sketch, you know, a basic idea. He is like, yeah, we could probably make you a mold for that. So I said, Well, great, we will get you some cat. You can send us a quote, you know, that kind of thing. We built the first prototype and he kind of fuss about like process issues. He said, Hey, you know, we got some things here we need to talk about to make the process better, made some suggestions about how we would change it. Next thing you know, the prototypes are they are easy to make. They run on the machine that he was interested in his quotes. Really good. Marketing is in need of a new product to go on some some things that are out there and we could give them prices and they were like with those prices. Yeah, we want to do this. And so you know, that is kind of how it happened and ended up being 14 Skus by the time we got it all Done and but yeah, pretty, pretty exciting program from that point of view. But yeah, that is how it starts. It starts with an idea and a need somewhere somebody is got a niche they need to take care of if you think about this material and that, you know, I am not an advocate for for just this material, right? I fooled all kinds of different polymers, but but for this material, it is a great way to make grips and protection for things if you think of bump or do impact or interact with the body really a great way to do it because you can put the structure right into mold and mold this thing right over it and get and get pretty good results. So I am pretty excited about it.

Yeah, yeah, very interesting. What kind of timeline was involved again from kind of the beginning to getting it on the shelf ?

Right. From idea to finish product about 9 years,

Oh, really? Wow. Wow.

I mean, it really was a was a product that was in favor and then people would decide that they wanted to go a different direction, you know? We like this feature. We are going to co market with this other product. You know things. It would it would come into view for 3 months or 6 months and then it would go out the 3rd time it came into view. It was we do not have an alternative, we do not have another way to do this. You have got to deliver. You have talked about it now, can you can you finish? Of course, by that time, we have done enough research that we knew. The performance characteristics , we knew who the suppliers were going to be, we knew what the designs had to contain. We had all of that worked out. So we were able to execute that. That that 3rd opportunity was our was our chance to shine. So that is 1 of those times when the 3rd time really was the charm,

Yeah, that is really cool. So tell us about the team that was involved, you know, how many people and and what are the different roles that that you needed?

Yeah, yeah. So, you know, our our group at Remington, I would call them, it was kind of a technology group. We had material science people. So I did polymers. We had a couple people do metallurgy. And so they would help you with, you know, with those aspects of things you would go to them for that we had an f a specialist who did what I call the textbook mechanical engineering stuff, you know, doing the equations and making sure that the stresses were right and all that. And and he was interested in recoil because he also was interested in the measurement technologies to measure it, and so he and I set up the measurement stuff together and and and did a lot of recoil testing through the years for various purposes, trying to understand how to do the measurements and how to get good information. And that good information helped because it ended up being in the advertising because we could show that our our product had better recall performance than other people's products did. And so it seems a key, key piece of that. Still around, we are still friends. I talked to him not as often as I would like but but I still keep in contact with him and he is still doing this type of mechanical engineering design and fa and so forth. And then the marketing side, you know, there was a there was a person who was basically responsible for the product line that contained this accessory and they were, you know, he was very cooperative and once it was clear that we had a set of characteristics that he saw a benefit to in the marketplace, like I can tell you applications where people want this and if I show them that I can give it to him, I am going to win a contract or win an opportunity. You are part of levering my my strengths. Then they became very cooperative and did a bunch of testing for us. And, you know, wore their shoulders out on the on various things, trying to get the perfect design. So, yeah, that was great. And then the other piece of it is the management my manager at that time was very supportive of new developments that took the big risks. In other words, you can you can take a piece of rubber and change the shape or you can, you know, change the way the logo looks or something. But that is not really a development , a development is really when you have got something that is new that is never been done before and he was willing to take those risks and he would protect me from time to time when upper management would be mad that the schedule was not going to suit them and those kinds of things.

Because he knew, hey, we are taking risks here, we have to be willing to accept that it is going to fit on a different timeline and because he provided that protection, we could do our work to get finished with all the details and really deliver a product that work well. I mean that is it is that combination if you do not have that support, you can not do it. I literally I literally talk about supporting innovators a lot in my in my work today because it is very important, if you do not do it, you will not get new things, you will get the same old thing, and that is not necessarily what people are looking for.

Yeah, yeah. You may have just answered this, but with all the products we have designed over the years, there is always some kind of challenge that comes up. What was the biggest challenge you and your team faced, you know, getting this developed and how did you solve the the challenge?

Right. So remember I talked about this starting out with a very, very soft material and we picked the material the first time through that was not not firm enough to do the job, okay close, but not exactly right. And so you send those samples to people and 1 person. Who did testing? You know, if you if you have ever shot a shotgun, you know that you you put the shotgun up here so your your hand is right there. If this thing comes back, you can you can pop yourself in the face pretty good. It is not a comfortable thing to have happened to you. And so you try to prevent that, but if you have a recall pad that collapses too easily, perhaps that is what is happening and this pan was worse because it was a little slick on the outside, so we ended up changing the finish to make it grip your grip your clothing a little bit, so it would stay in place. And so it slipped off and and he popped himself in the face. He was not very happy about that, but those are the kinds of things that can happen and that will derail a program because, you know, now everybody's always upset, you know, this is not going to work well. I admit that did not work and it was not a good experience, but the reason was that we did not have the density quite right and we will go up a little bit and we will send you some more samples and and. And I will do that testing ahead of time rather than send the first ones out to you guys and then we will and then we will go from there and that that is the way we worked it out is to basically make sure the thing was okay. They ultimately, like I said, became champions of the thing and it is been a success. Help me with the, you know, the development of the branding and putting a name on it so that it would have something to be called out there in the market is.

Yeah, yeah. You talked a little bit about prototyping with the manufacturer. Were there other types of prototyping processes that you used like in the interim or while that was going on as well?

Yeah, so I did not describe this in detail and and you can see it this information is public record, right, because you can buy these products and there is a patent, but basically there is a there is a plate inside that is meant to carry the screw load so that you can screw this thing onto the stock and it will stay. And you have a cavity essentially above that that the screw can go through that is inside the phone that will still collapse, but you can not really feel it if you if you are collapsing it all the way, you do not notice it, it just closes up and it is okay, but that had to be molded in so That was all figuring that out was a little bit of a trick. So we 3D printed the first ones of these that did not work particularly well. And 3D printing has come some distance. I think you can get better properties these days, but we had those things fractured in testing. And so what we ended up doing is the the same person, the same manufacturer was willing to take CAD and build a relatively cheap aluminum insert for a mold that he already owned a mud mold that he already owned so that he could mold us these parts and we had to clip them, we had to sand them a little bit, but we had a prototype that was more rugged, more like we would expect the real product today. And that worked pretty well. That got us through our prototype phase until we in fact tell you the truth that got us through our early production because he used it for a while in production, while while we built the larger cavitation mold that he would end up using more formally in production. But we we built the first few thousand parts for production using that using that mold, it turned out to be.

So you got a prototype tool and a bridge tool out of it.

Right, exactly.

And and this really kind of worked out fine and and they were willing to do it. They had the materials there already. They made similar components if you think about the, you know, the handle or grip or cushion that goes on something, often you need a reinforcement somewhere to attach it. We are not the only ones that had that issue that is it a pretty common theme for them. So they had done enough of that that they were like, yeah, okay, we can probably come up with that. And it turned out to be exactly true. They did.

Very interesting. So just a few more questions before we start to wrap up and shifting gears just a little bit, what are some of the trends that you see emerging in product development ? Yeah. So I have some trends that I see is positive and some that I see is worrying and I think I will use worrying first and then we can come back and cheer people up a little bit. The thing that I have is worrying is that there are a number of people and a number of different pressures on some very useful materials saying, e.g., that they are not good for the environment or you know, that there is those kinds of pressures now, you know, I am an outdoorsman and Avid, so and I think of myself as someone who loves the environment . But the reason why we convert things that are we find on our planet into useful things for us and is to help humans right to help people be better and in some cases it helps, you know, our pets and and and so forth as well, but but we do these things because that creates value for all of us, it makes life better and more comfortable and so on. So if you take those materials off the table for not a strong reason, you can because harm, and I can give you a classic e.g.. PBC polyvinyl chloride is a material that is in the news a lot. There was a a famous trained those kinds of things. PDC has some interesting properties. It plastic sizes very well. It is relatively non reactive, meaning it does not the body does not respond badly to it, so you be using medical things and does not really because big problems and very commonly found in the products that that are manufactured here. It also is really flame retardant and spark arresting so that if you have some type of electrical overload or a switch that throws a spark, you do not have to worry about igniting this material. So you can make all kinds of products out of it that are safe and rugged and reliable and healthy. And if you get rid of it, there is no substitute, there is no material I am aware of that can do what that material can do precisely. And as a result, if you lose that material, you lose those functions. And that to me, is a serious problem. That can be a real threat. I mean, you can get to the point where some good products can be made because you can not get the materials that you need to make. And I just think that that is a that is a huge problem now if I flip over to the to the good side artificial intelligence, AI stuff is really remarkably changing what can be generated if you think about a frame to hold something. And you are going to because of the style and the feature performance , you are going to machine that out of aluminum, let us say you can literally develop models very easily that give you the perfect strength. And weight combination , and it can be this very intricate 3 dimensional design that it takes to do that, but it is generated in real time and you generate the code right with it and then you just cut the thing. Using very sophisticated code, but not code that was particularly hard to write and get an absolutely beautifully performing product output, so there is this ability to personalize it to make prosthetics or to make products that fit people almost perf perfectly, you know, you just go in and they take your picture with a scanner and they and they tell you exactly what size of product you need and they make you exactly the right adjustments for it you can personalize and make products fit better. And that means performance will go up, you know, you can cycle for longer, have more fun if that is what you are doing or get better exercise if that is what you are doing because the product fits you and more comfortable just as a for instance. So I see that as like, you know, that is that is going to make products better. So I see that as you know, as a really positive thing. I hope I did a good job with both up and down there.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, that was very interesting. You know, looking back on on your experience developing products, I am sure you have had a lot of challenges and successes. What words of wisdom would you share with those looking to make a significant impact in the product development industry?

Yeah. So mainly it is persistence, right? Always try to follow first principle when it comes to making a product, right, the an early mentor of mine at G Plastic said Bostick, you know, of happy memory of told me never to lie to the molecules and and I think what he meant was, you know, do not do not kid yourself, you measure what you really get and follow it because the data will drive you and that is what you have to do. It is that kind of persistence is important it. Every time you have a new idea, you are going to upset someone. That idea is not comfortable for everyone, it is going to because problems, there is going to be issues you can you can not make it, there will be some problem with the design, somebody does not like it, there will be all kinds of things. If you stick the first principles, it is a good idea. It will serve customers well, it will create value. And you hang in there, you will get it done. But if you do not have persistence, you will not. So you got to you got to be persistent, be nice. Show people what it can do, but but be persistent because if you do not, new things will not happen.

I would say sticking around, sticking with it for 9 years is pretty persistent.

I I sort of laughed about this. I want to put this in here because, you know, my first appearance on your podcast here and I want to mention my dad, my dad was an inspiration, he was a he was a teacher and he had Alzheimer's and so he kind of for lack of a better description, kind of faded away, so 1 of the last things that I can say that he said to me that was in, you know, recognizable English was never give up. And I thought, you know, if you are going to have last words, those are not bad ones, that is the that is the real trick, the real power of of what we know how to do as humans is to have a great idea.

And stay with it until we get it to work and it is not easy, but it is worth it and, you know, you have done this yourself a lot and you have seen how how many times persistence takes. I mean, if you do not have it, you will not get there because there is robots in front of every good idea.

Yeah, definitely, definitely. Is there anything else you would you do within the product development world outside of your day job?

Yeah, so a friend of mine, Paul Nash and I developed the Polymer E club, we had to use E club because apparently Polymer Club was taken, but anyway, Polymer eClub is basically a learning opportunity, we make short format videos, long format videos, and we also have training courses. In polymers for people that are interested in what we are what makes us unusual is it is application based, so in other words, we would not necessarily show you every synthetic route to get to a particular polymer as you might get in a survey course of polymers and that kind of thing, but really specific to application. Just exactly in the same way I did the recoil pad, what polymer would be good for this purpose? Why how do you make use of it? What processes do you use, what are the design considerations , all the stuff that it takes to really kind of put the thing into use in a in a real product? And we started about a year ago developing the website and and putting together videos and we have the sales funnel if everybody knows what that is, it is just you literally on our plate here in the next few days to get launched, but the website is up, it is just polymer e club. And basically what we what we are going to be doing there is kind of 4 things they will be free content of interest on polymers. There will be premium content. A little more detailed on polymer for members, members can participate in a community where there will be some webinars and also a chance to ask questions and get answers. And then there will be coursework that is available for you to take short course persons that would compete with other kinds of short courses out there. And the whole effort is really aimed at getting more people more familiar with polymer so that they can use polymers more effectively in their product development and engagement . Paul? Paul works on the West Coast for a very large 2 letter manufacturer of computer and printer items has been doing that quite a long time successfully and you know, and I am kind of in the center of the country doing product development and most of the companies that I have worked for are brand names and recognizable . So and I think we have some good experience to be able to share and I have so far it is it is been a fun project to do and I have enjoyed making videos and and that kind of thing, so I hope it will turn out well for us, but that is basically the idea if you want to learn more about polymers, come see us at polymer eClub.

Yeah, that sounds very interesting. I will definitely I will put that in the show notes as well and and everybody can go check that out. This has been great. I really appreciate you doing this.

Absolutely.

Before we wrap up, is there anything else you want to mention with regards to the product or product development in general?

Yeah, so the biggest thing that I would say is that if you are having some kind of frustration with some tiny aspect of an overall idea of yours, do not let it bother you reach out there is so many people out there that probably already have the answer to that thing. And we would like to hear from you and work with you and that kind of thing. I find that that I can knock away a lot of my roadblocks by finding a person who knows the answer and they are out there and they are probably willing to talk to you about it and share with you about it. I know I am so.

Yeah, those are good words. So before we end where, can people find out about the recoil pad?

Yeah. So today the the website for Remington is is www.remarms.com and they can check out products that have it there and you can also buy it as an accessory at your favorite accessory retailer, so.

All right. Cool. I will make sure to put that in the show notes. And again, I really appreciate you doing this, Todd.

Absolutely a lot of fun, Troy. Appreciate a lot.