EPISODE 8 - DR. TOM FOUST
Welcome to the Impulse Spotlight where we meet with product development professionals and shine a light on the products they are most proud of.
In this episode, we talk with an innovation and product development expert with over three decades of experience. He has been a guiding force for companies spanning the spectrum from startups to Fortune 500 giants, helping them through the journey from product concept to commercialization with unparalleled expertise. When he's not hard at work Tom enjoys spending his free time with his wife and family.
Dr. Tom Foust's career has seen him collaborate with an impressive array of clients, including industry titans like Eli Lilly, Takeda Pharmaceutical, Frito-Lay, and Delta Faucet, and many others. Notably, he's the driving force behind the groundbreaking aqueous ozone technology, swiftly bringing it to market through his company, 30e Scientific which was honored with the Edison gold Award in 2022 for its innovative product, "Iggy."
Beyond his corporate endeavors, Tom is a renowned scholar and educator. He's an Associate Faculty Member at IUPUI in Indianapolis, and has lectured at institutions such as Oxford University and the University of Birmingham, where he holds an honorary professorship. He's also an author of two books alongside numerous publications and keynote speaking engagements worldwide.
Today we have the privilege of sitting down with Dr. Foust to explore the intricacies of front-end product development and the keys to fostering innovation in today's fast-paced world. In our conversation we'll take a look at Tom's latest product the "fur hero" and the pivot it made to get where it is today. We'll also discuss Tom's approach to identifying extreme users, the symbiotic relationship between designers and engineers, and the impact of strategic advisory roles in executive decision-making.
Show Notes:
Click here to learn more about Tom’s work.
Podcast Transcript:
Hey, Tom, welcome to the show.
Hey, Troy, thanks for the invite. Good to be here and look forward to the chat.
So do I. So do I. So I started Impulse 25 years ago, worked at another product development firm, kind of saw the writing on the wall that they were not going to be around much longer. So we started impulse and have been living in the product development world ever since. How did you get into the product development world?
Go I moved back from overseas 20 about about the same 25 years ago or so and it was actually a hard trial for me. I was going through a divorce and looking for something new and a good friend of mine hooked me up with a brilliant product development person, and he brought me all as a contract worker and we went and. For the contract that they called back and asked for me and the owner said, Well, I want to bring this guy on full time. So that was how I got started. His name is Jerry Mccolgan, good friend. Brilliant in s came out of the Whirlpool world. And so we worked together for many years with his company, and then later I went to 2,008 hit and a lot of our contracts started going away because of the recession, the great recession, and I went into a corporate world was at Delta Post for 7 several years doing all their innovation from the inside and product development in all across all their brands. So Greek companies still have great contacts there and then started my own company following that outside of that.
Very cool. So, yeah, impulse. Obviously, we are a product design house, work with our clients when they are stuck with tight timelines or just need some more capacity, some fresh ideas, things like that. Tell us about what you do.
Yeah. Well, SDG International is my primary company and for years, as I said, I was doing product development for other companies and out of that, you know, it is it was so much fun. I mean, everything from lighting to toilets to to outdoor heaters, to outdoor living space to inside lighting and just many, many different companies, many projects, and I finally decided to do it for myself, so I did a few different products here concepts and my my area of core competencies are coming up with the new things to the world products businesses or services that are brand new to the world. So companies would bring me in to help them reinvent themselves and to come up with new new concepts all the way to market ability and to commercialization . So so I decided to do it for myself and actually 1 product just now.
What on Amazon today? It is called The Fur Hero. It is a pet grooming tool. And and I will give you a little bit of clue as to the background to that story because that is what that is what I do and that is how I got started. Well, I can show it to you real quick. This is it right here, the Fur hero. It started out as a grooming tool for women in hair design and got into Paul Mitchell and they took it and took a hard look at it like and they decided, no, it is not for us. Well, so we did what is called a major pivot. We went to pet grooming. So the same tool and it took off like crazy. We went to a couple of pet shows and and it was sold really well. We got on with an influencer. We sold $10,000 in a week.
Wow.
And so, yeah, we just we look at the local group and to put it on Amazon and order fulfillment group. And we just had our first sales yesterday. So this went on yesterday and we had 2 sales come through. So we are kind of excited about that. So what I do is not just come up with the concept. But I have often to help pivot to get it to sale because different products require different if it is an innovative product, it required different sales funnels, you know. So I go through all that. So not just a concept, but how do you get it to commercialization , so pivoting from like a hair grooming tool for for women to the pit. So it is kind of fun figuring all those kinds of things out. So that is what I do with SDG. My clients typically bring me in and they are looking for the next big thing. So instead of coming up with 150 ideas. What I try to come up with, I try I come up with a22 or 3 revolutionary ideas and then about a dozen innovative ideas that are already with the with their brand and their core competencies , but there is also 2 or 3. Brand new to the world ideas that you come up with and then a good 1012, maybe 20 innovative ideas that that are that are that can come out their current product line. So that is what I do. It is fun.
Yeah, sounds sounds very interesting. Can you walk us through the process? You go through a little bit, you know, like how do you get started and then how does it get handed off at the end and they what would be the next step after you?
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you bet a lot of research has been out there, like when you come up with the initial concept and you start to define the the parameters, you know, the features and the benefits, 75 % of your costs are sunk in right there they are that is a true that is if you are that is what you you are going to be dealing with, for instance, is it going to need tooling, is it going to need design? And you know, you get 75 % of those costs that are that are locked in during that front end development , so. I do that front and development . Typically, I will give you the story about about lighting. This company called us in and they they wanted us to come, they have lights and so we took we always have the I always have the company ship. Ship me some product, let me see it. I want to see the packaging, want to see. And so we do we do our our work there. That is the first thing I understand what currently is that you are doing, for instance, and then we go and interview people. So we set up a bunch of interviews in people's Homes and and and start talking to them about lighting, you know, it was fascinating so we went around and some of the interviews would go like this, like, well, in this part of my my home, the children are doing doing their homework so we want it to be light and and fresh and and and enhancing. And and this part of the home, this where we relax at night, so we want to be warm and inviting and comfortable. So out of that, not only did we innovate the lighting for the company, but all of their marketing language because they were talking about lumens and Watts.
Sure.
And the consumers could care less.
Right. Right.
1 of the great and then the other thing we always try to do is find users that are extreme users. Well, in that lighting instance we went and interviewed . A theater, they are all about the wing and so from spotlights to the light bulbs on a stage and it was all about shadows for them.
Sure.
We are like, what what you mean, shadows? Well, yeah, when you are filming or, you know, or when you are live play, those are 2 different worlds, but we talked about both.
And it was just fascinating, the learnings that we had going to extreme users, so you always want to include extreme users in that in your in your research, so that research then. You take all that and I film everything and the reason I film everything, then I will use that for our brainstorming , okay, here is what you currently have here is what your consumer said, listen, listen to this, and we will cut and paste and and have good editing film for the fodder. Like cannon fodder for the father for thinking about how do we come up with this? Because then if you come out with the new concepts based upon here is what we are currently doing here is what they want. You go after their needs, they if you satisfy the unmet needs of the consumers and they will pay big money, so that is why designers and engineers I am before they get there because then I come up with say, hey, here are the features and the benefits that are needed. And I will give you a great e.g. like the the touch pose that was done at Delta Faucet. You know, the filming we had we we should paid parties for people to host a party in their home. So it is a second e.g.. That it was the lighting. And this is another e.g. like the the touch faucet. And we saw people. The reason he went to film a party. I do not want to just go in and talk to somebody about that false. I wanted to see that false used in its environment . So making a meal, cleaning it up and and so the the consumers, they had 10 people were to party, 10 people we go in and we were filming the getting ready for the party and then the cleanup we saw these people, people come to turkeys in their hands and trying to turn the faucet on with their elbow without having to touch that handle, without having to move that handle, well, that is either capacitance sonar. Or infrared, you know, 1 of 1 of the 3 so you build models for each 1 prototypes, really, I mean, I mean, prove a concept prototype, not not like not building out but sometimes. You fake it like, okay into red and you are sitting there with your own control, watching the consumer, use it, and when they use it in the right plane, you turn it on. Backed away from, you know, so it is not even does not have to be functionally ready to go, but a rough prototype, then you test it with the consumers. Again, finally got down to we could have done. Using capacitance could have been like just coming close to the faucet, you know, just coming near but people wanted to touch it because their experience at that time was around airports and and the and the the the dance, the hands trying to activate it, it would not work with the with the infrared infrared.
Yeah. Yeah, I think so.
Yeah, and and, uh, and so they wanted to touch it because they did not trust it would work. So that was a fascinating learning to so that is the kind of thing. But then when you get down to it, then then the engineers and designers can go in and work with confidence if we get this right, if we execute well. It is going to sell. At a higher price point than normal to.
Sure, sure. So the when it comes to gathering a group of people to research, what does that process like? Do you have like this database or do you like, have to generate ads or how does that work?
It is changed over the years. You can hire marketing firms to go out there and get that for you. But with social media nowadays what we do is we say once a company comes in because every company is different, there is I do not believe that there is only 1 way of getting the answers you have to be flexible Because 1 company selling, you know, lighting versus toilets versus faucets, everybody's different. So we go in and and I hope that do not mind giving me the long answer these questions, but I am trying to give you the background . But you go in and you find out what what is your goal to sell more of the same to come up with something that is new to the world, and then you write your learning goals out of the learning goals, and who is it that is going to be a great buyer of this product?
Then you write that out and here here is what that person looks like, then you go on social media nowadays and you can recruit for, you know, on through Facebook, we have done it through all kinds of social media where we recruit and get to people. And around the world, around the country, you know, it is like I always try to do 303 to 4 different cities because you you know, and so when you write out the demographics of what you are looking for, you want a wide demographic of age, ethnic background , lifestyle, you know, so you get a broad scope, what we discovered is even though you are doing qualitative research, you can you let the book blink help help a lot, you know, you can you with with a with 20 to 25. Consumers, you you can be really confident if you have done proper research on proper learning and good questions, you can be confident that represents the findings that represent a quantitative analysis, which you eventually do, so what I have learned was to find them back to your question, to find them, you know, find out what your company's wanting to do and then who are going to be the ones who would buy that, and then you write your demographic your learning goals and then what these people would look like. When you do that, you can you can approach it with great confidence, even more. So working with engineering centric firms, what I have discovered is they still want quantitative analysis, so after we come up with the concept, a friend and I had have developed a database where we do it around find metrics solves a problem, the uniqueness , the believ ability, like ability and purchase intent. We we do it on those 5 metrics. We send up the concept to 150 different consumers who who match this demographic that we are looking for and and we have a rank it 1 to 505 being like like a purchase intent of 5 means I would definitely buy that thing and purchase a tenant. 1 means I am probably not going to ever buy it. Uh, but then we also asked 2 open ended questions. What do you like about This concept the most and what do you least like about this concept and that last next 1 then really helps us refine what that concept, whether it be a product or service or business. What it needs to look like, what are the features, what are the benefits, so you get this process is done, you hand off to the engineers and designers and say here is what this product or business or service has to look like, and man is quite confidence and then you can know. Um, uh, we we tested this on some products that are new to the world as well, a lot of them, and like the iphone was tested in this methodology, the believability was down to 1, nobody believed it.Before it came out, who would have believed is going to be your camera, your phone, you know, your GPS.
Right?
You know, nobody believed it. So I do not know really care about purchase intent. That is a marketing issue, but if I am sorry believability, I do not care about believability, but if I have got meats and need and more than 1 need and I have got high intent and I have got high like ability and high uniqueness . Mom and me, I will. You know the purchase, the sorry believability. It could be down to 1 and I do not care that then I hand it up to marketing. So you also in this process, you are getting marketing and branding their language to use as well as giving the designers and engineers the the roadmap to success from building out this this product.
Sure. You have kind of been talking about it all along, but just to kind of formalize it, why is it so important to do all this research up front before you start building?
Yeah. Yeah, I have been I have done several presentations on this because what happens is if you know that 75 % or more of your costs are locked in at the beginning, well then let us lock in the right 1, so making sure that it is going to be successful before you ever start building it that if I execute well, I can be confident that it is going to sell well. That is those are 2 of the big reasons, you know, the cost cost savings up front because say I go to build a product. And I am guessing what that problems look look like or be like are the features and I build a bunch of problem prototypes and then test it with consumers, you are already you are already guessing, you know, you are guessing at expensive, you know? Engineers are expensive, they are good, but it is very expensive, you know, and so so that those are the top 2 reasons. But then the 3rd 1 is I think it gets confidence to the to the engineers and designers, they get excited because like if I if I could have the confidence man, this is going to sell well. It puts a whole different mindset into that into that building of the of the device or the business or a service.
Yeah, that is interesting, you know, just thinking about, you know, if you do not have this up front, you know, you are designing it and you are like, I hope this works right. I am putting it and I may end up failing at it, you know, do not have high confidence level. So that is interesting.
Well, because engineers love solving problems, so they will solve the problem, okay, but is it the right problem to solve, you know, and that is the key, so when you satis satisfy the unmet needs of consumers and oftentimes.
Right. Right.
If they can or even articulate what their need is, those those are even better, it is at the subconscious level, let the like like that user who is trying to turn the false along with the elbow. They could not articulate. I need a faucet that could be activated without moving the handle. That is our job to go in and watch and observe and find out. You know, there is a story of a story about. You know, different products that either I have done or others have done that, like that observational research at the front end is is really it is fun. I mean, you are learning so much some of the things we learned around the toilet. It is like men and women are not the same and it do not go to the toilet the same, you know?
Yeah. Interesting. So when you do this upfront research and you kind of hand it off to design engineered folks, is that it? Are you done in the process or do you kind of stay involved?
Every project is different. Some want me involved all the way through, for instance, 1 company brought me in and it was master Gardeners, you know, it is who we interviewed, they are they are trying to do a new line of tools and they wanted to and so they wanted a high end set of tools for the people that are called master gardens. I mean, they go through education training, get degrees and certifications and they know their tools inside and out. So what we did with that 1 and they wanted to do it in a short time. Normally a project takes 2 or 3 months to get done because, you know, all the all the things you have to do to prepare to go do the interviews, etc. But they want to do it in a short amount of time, so what we did we put together, we got to go to these master gardeners themselves. And we would bring in the prototypes and have them use them right right there and film everything, and so then I am and again, I fill them everything because I want perfect memory and then I can ask questions, and I do not have to worry about trying to write something down. And so then it is like, you know, it is using like a focus group, but they are a working focus group, okay? So we did kind of a hybrid. So we build the prototypes, bring these people back in, they got all excited about it, you know, because they were actually helping to figure out the features and benefits. And I do not like this, I do like that. And so each 1 each project is different. You know, I do I will say that I love working with engineers. And and and because they love fixing problems, you know, so so once I identify the problem, oh, you can just see their light bulbs going off, you know, because like then they get excited and they are smarter than I am because I my gift is like figuring out the front end stuff and and then handing it off to them. So. I have worked with countless engineering firms and designers as well and and and that is the designer engineer. Playback from forth is very critical, you know, the best ones who do it well are the descent designers and engineers who respect what each 1 does. And not not I mean, it is okay to, you know, rib each other. It is like, yeah, you are just putting lips they are going to pig kind of thing but but that lipstick sells it, brother, you know you know.
Right?
So you have fun with it when the designers and engineers respect each other and value each other and have fun at the same time, you know, and. Right, right. Yeah, that that relationship can get interesting. Let us say at time when people do not respect each other and they are the you know, there is there is always that give and take and, you know, push and pull and, you know. Pushing the bot, you know, yeah, we can push that boundary but it is going to cost you 6 times as much, you know, kind of thing, so. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah, I just thought of another reason to bring to do this front end research. Like I had a client that had this brilliant idea and it was about a way to electronically tag on a collar, an animal and it would not have to. Like have 1 of those cones, you know, it would stop the animal from from licking or biting or chewing in the wrong areas.
Interesting.
Well, that is when I when I get something like that and and then I went out and got the patent and I am like, okay, so I brought in engineers, you know, really good engineers. And and we look at that thing every which way and could it be done? Yeah, but it is such a high cost. That, you know, because it would have been a software the ran a software engineer as well as a as a double e electrical engineer and a mechanical engineer and, you know, there are 3 or 4 of us and we were like, we looked at that thing every which way and we were like I had to say to them, I am like. It could be done, but here is the cost and I can not charge you that amount in good faith and so sometimes because you have for an end yet to say to a client, it is like I do not feel right charging you this, you know, and so and so, you know, and so so so that is why sometimes you have to say no to a project out of integrity even though I would love to take it on and charge it, you know, but at the end are you going to be happy, you know, with a product that costs thousand dollars, who are going to pay that when the current solution is zero.
Yeah.
Right, right, right.
You know?
Yeah, we we run into that a lot with inventors.
Yeah.
Obviously, obviously most of them are ignorant of the product development process and you know, in the end you just have to say, no, we can not do this because sure we could make a few thousand dollars off of you and then you are going to run into the next phase and go, wow, there is no way I can get this done.
Exactly. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
So.
What you just said is key the product development pathway involves a lot of different things and just the idea and you know that as well as I whether it is a software issue, whether it is prototyping , whether it is the, you know, tooling, you know, people no, a tooling is going to cost you a 100 thousand dollars, you know.
Yeah, yeah. 1 of the lines we always use is if if you can not afford us, you can not afford to do this project.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yes, we are expensive, but we are such a small chunk of the process when it comes to.
Oh, yeah. Well, that is that is if I get pushed back, it is what you just said because a typical typical job contract for me is going to be it is not going to be a thousand dollars or $10,000, you know. And it is hard for people to understand that, like, I am going to make you money or I am going to save you money, you know, and so, you know, so what project is a 100 thousand dollars, what I can not afford that. Well, I understand that, but I am going to change your world and what, you know, often some of my most recent projects, 1 was $50 million annualized the first year off the project wrong, you know. So that is what I am trying to do is I only I get happy when I am making you look like a $50 million, you know, so that project was a $150,000. But the end result is $10 million annualized, you know.
Yeah. I mean, it is a good investment but but, yeah, you just have to have the money to invest to be able to do things.
Yeah. So, yes, I am not looking for people who want to spend a thousand dollars and, you know, it is like I have got a process that works and and I am flexible, you know, I will.
Right?
1 another another product we after doing so many you can tell when you are getting to the truth with consumers because, you they do not they are not lying to you but they only know they can only tell you what they can see and understand and so you all you never like we had. Whatever they say about the product or the service of the business is true. I always treat like that. How how do you know that where did that come from that, you know, I have got to be into their story and believe everything and the reason for that is. I have got to come away from that and hear their truth because it is true then whether or not it is true to physics or or product development or anything else, it is true to them and that is what I want to get out. So we realized.
And I realized that on this product that I was not getting to the truth that the women had this behaviors, the aga it was not you know, it was around the toilet issue, you know, and I am like, why do why this behavior, what is going on and they would give answers, I am like that is not true. So. I had people hypnotized.
Really?
To get to the truth, it was absolutely fascinating.
Wow.
So it is like my goal is I will find out, all right, whatever it takes. And so
Yeah.
and so it is and so we finally got to the truth. It was all around women's hygiene and they are so there are a lot of emotions around that which released another key development if I can get to the emotions, oh my goodness, a product that have been working on with with round ozone is a testament to that. You know, we put in these faucets that had ozone capability in ozone is nature's disinfected. It is All natural, it is 3. It inoculates the bad bugs, you know. And so we had these women who we were doing the faucet and and they got all emotionally mean, wait. You mean this could help my child? Be safe with the washing of the hand that they were in tears. I am like, okay. And then they were changing their behaviors around the sink they were using they were bringing in baby bottles. And and and and, you know, sanitizing, you know, disinfecting all kind kinds of things a ballerina because O 3 kills odor bacteria, which is the because of odor and sports browsing. So once you get it once you start changing behaviors of consumers and they get highly emotional about the product, my you can be real confident of of success in the market.
That is interesting.
Yeah.
Yeah.
it would they were just withholding information because it was so personal and then the hypnosis, like, let them be free with the information. Is that kind of what happened interesting?
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah. Yeah, it is kind of too personal to get into details, you know, that want to
Sure.
But, you know, women women in their hygiene when they are using the toilet. It is not just about like for guys just going to the toilet.
Right.
Women use that time to understand their bodies. And and what is going on and it was absolutely fascinating, absolutely. That is the other thing I love about it. I get to learn all this stuff, you know, I have the strangest knowledge and understanding of different things, like even the lighting, you know, it is like, you know.
Yeah. Yeah.
It is just been fascinating, so and so the point is, I have got a big toolbox and you pull out whatever it takes to get to the to get to the understanding those humans, their behaviors and their emotions, because once I get to their behaviors and emotions, man, that is that is winter.
Yeah. Yeah, that is interesting. So a bit as we start to wrap up a little bit, is there any other any other story you want to share or anything else you want to make sure you communicate about what you do?
Yeah, the other thing I do is often ends up with because I do this and people are laying their careers on the line, you know, because you bring me and I, you know. If things are what happen often, what often happens is companies wait till things are going bad before they look for help and all right, and I am I am here to suggest that is the wrong time because you are operating from a negative mindset if you were at a fear, all right, but I often get brought in during that time. And because if things are going well and everybody's getting their bonuses and their paychecks, you know, you do not get in trouble for missing the boat, only you sink the boat.
Right, right.
So, corps are notorious for like, no, everything's going fine. We do not want to change anything. And so when that happens, you know, it is like typically I am brought in. It is like either your career is on the line or, you know, and things are bad so. So I would heartily recommend that like before that happens, that is when you want to bring me in to to to to do the magic, but I often end up advising the executives from a strategic perspective and from a peak performance perspective because they are. They are they are wanting to change things. If it is if it is in a place where things are not going well, it is also not a fear but if it is in a good place then I get to have a whole other conversation . And it leads to confidence and and now that I mean, I am not I am not a young man anymore, you know, middle aged or so and and so it is like having had all the experience behind me, you know, it is like, yeah, I can I can I can say you can trust the process and we will get there, you know. So that is the other thing. It is like I do peak performance work with companies and executives and that came about largely because I had to help them in this innovative process because it is scary at the front end, it is very scary. How can I know we are going to get there, you are going to get there, you know.
Interesting. Any other stories or anything else you want to share?
Tons of them. I mean, it is like, uh, uh, some of the more. Okay, I I know 1 this was this Harkens back to the paintball, you know, early days we did. And I know I watch your podcast by the way, your last with some paintball stuff and he was fascinating to listen to.
Yeah.
Yeah, and you have got a great podcast going here, so I am highly honored that you have asked me to be a part of it.
Thank you.
So we were brought in with a company.
Thank you.
And there is there are 2 types of paintball, speedball, and that is all about laying down as much paint as you can down lines and alleys and angles and and then there is there is woods, pink ball where, you know, if you get within 6 ft of somebody you can just shout it out. You can not shoot them. You do not suppose to, and you hate. So what we discovered was this was back when it was in its heyday and we we found that that it was a lot of young men playing it and them and or them and their dad that okay, and so they were going out and and the woods ball people were copying the speedball people with their guns and and how many pit bulls can come out per second? And so we asked them, we are like, well, do you make pink balls? No. Well, you know, look at this field because we had not filled a bunch of paint bows, I mean, and they are they were they would play for days sometimes and we are like, look at all these paint they are laying down and they only cared about that 1 that hit they did not care about the 25 or 50 That missed And I am like, you got a whole different strategy here and and here is another extreme user. He did not have a paintball gun, he walked around with just a nozzle. And and his whole thing was getting it in 6 ft and killing him. That way you are dead, I got you. And he did not shoot any paint balls, and you do not make paint bowls. You need to change the nature of the games, not going after the speed bowl. Copying them them. That is that is a bit. So we help them design all new. Well, no, they got mad at us at first. They were so angry that we would come to them and tell them like, look, the game is they are saying they are leading the game. We are only playing once a month now because it is too expensive. I can not afford to spend a $100 on a weekend every weekend that. My parents were paying for it and so like you have got trouble coming, we knew it long before they did have well, they got angry a year later they called us and I said,
Yeah.
Okay, we want to bring you back in and talk about those guns you were going to help us design.
Right.
And we did and they were they sold out.
Yeah.
They are the only guns that ever sold out online before they ever started manufacturing the new designs.
Wow. That is awesome.
So that is why that is I say, you know, this process works and I can not encourage companies enough to like just do not get mad at me. It is okay if you do But.
Yeah.
Yeah. Sure. Sure.
so, yeah.
Well, this has been really interesting if somebody wanted to talk to you or learn more about you, where where can they find you?
Yeah.
My email address is T foust f o u s t at SDG international .com, um, my mobile .
Awesome, I will make sure to put all that in the show notes. Yeah, so if you guys are interested in talking to Tom about what he does, you will have his contact info. So I really appreciate you doing this Tom.
What an honor, Troy. I really am honored that you got to do this and I am impressed with your group. I know we know a lot of the same engineer s and designers around Indiana and other places. And you guys have a great reputation and look forward to working with you sometime.
I appreciate it.
All right. Thank you.